Short Stays, Big Dreams: A Travel & Vacation Rental Podcast
"Short Stays, Big Dreams: A Travel & Rental Podcast" dives into the world of short-term rental management, the stay industry, and travel, offering insights, expert interviews, and actionable tips to help you maximize your rental business and explore the latest travel trends.
Short Stays, Big Dreams: A Travel & Vacation Rental Podcast
Revolutionize Your Rental Experience: Mastering Unreasonable Hospitality with Billy O'Sull
Unlock the secrets of exceptional hospitality with Billy O'Sull, a game-changer in the short-term rental industry and the creative force behind the short-term rental pillar at PMI. Billy's journey is nothing short of inspiring, as he passionately shares his philosophy of "unreasonable hospitality," rooted in the aloha spirit of his Hawaiian origins. His experiences span both U.S. and international markets, offering invaluable insights into maintaining and elevating the guest experience. This episode promises a deep dive into the essence of hospitality, driven by genuine human connection and a commitment to creating unforgettable vacation memories.
Billy's story is a testament to entrepreneurial spirit and innovation. From sparking growth at PMI to leading Altito through the pandemic, Billy's career is marked by resilience and a knack for nurturing talent. His partnership with Cliff Johnson to launch Ohana Inns reflects his vision of transforming inns into vibrant, family-oriented vacation havens. We explore the delicate balance of growing a business while staying true to core values like team well-being and community involvement. With ongoing projects like managing Princeville Vacation Rentals in Kauai, Billy emphasizes the power of intentional growth and the enduring aloha spirit in hospitality.
Leadership, technology, and community engagement emerge as pivotal themes in our conversation. Billy shares insights into the delicate art of balancing technological advancements with the irreplaceable human touch, especially in guest interactions. He underscores the importance of fostering a supportive company culture and building strong local ties, using inspiring examples of businesses making a positive impact. We also explore evolving trends in the short-term rental market, where diversification and adaptability are key. Finally, get a glimpse of Billy's minimalist and adventurous lifestyle, offering practical travel tips for those eager to embrace a life of exploration and authenticity.
welcome my beautiful people. I am to say that I'm excited about this podcast is a true understatement. I'm going to be talking to an old friend of mine, really the person or the catalyst to my career in short-term rentals. Um, his name is billy o'sull. He was the one and you guys hear me say this all the time. If you're a subscriber or you follow me on Instagram, I always talk about the person that actually brought the pillar to PMI, or the short-term rental pillar to PMI, and he's the actual guy who actually wrote the pillar. So I'm super excited to bring him on. So, without further ado, billy, do us a big favor, tell us who you are and what you're about.
Speaker 2:Aloha. Well, thank you, for I tried to wear one of my Hawaiian shirts, which is kind of my calling card if you've seen any of my PMI videos. But yeah, I mean I'm so excited to be here with you, fernando, you're a legend, and I can't tell you how grateful I am to have been called by Steve Hart way back in the day to actually talk software, and we got the idea together about putting together a short-term rental pillar for PMI that was doing long-term rental and HOA and some commercial stuff. But there was no actual short-term rental at the time. So what am I about?
Speaker 2:I'm about hospitality. I mean, I'm just about weaving the dream for people that are going on vacation. I'm about reminding everybody in this business just how special it is to actually go on a vacation and to get to get away from the rat race and go and experience a new place or a new culture or a new language or all of those things that we get when we're out there on vacation. And I've been lucky enough to actually get pretty deep into the business, so to speak, both here in the United States and more and more internationally over the last few years. But I think I'm about trying to inspire people like yourself, when we got to meet way back in the day to actually get neck deep into this thing and attack and build and learn and grow and host and do all these things, because this short-term rental business is just like.
Speaker 2:It's like 15 businesses squished into one. It's maintenance, it's housekeeping, it's all of those super important things and, yeah, so that's what I'm about, and for some reason, I started hosting my first guest in 99 and I'm still doing it 25 years later. I freaking feel old. I'm going to be 44 here in about a month, but it's like it's been my life's work and so I, I'm just, I'm still excited by it. I love how much the industry is changing and um, and and and seeing, and seeing what you've been able to do over the last, you know, several years is just I don't know man, I'm, I feel like. I feel like it's um, it's my dream. You know, you're my, you're my dream in action. So thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 1:Man. I love that. No, and listen, the pleasure is all mine. Right, we're going to backtrack a little bit here, because one of the things he said is extremely important and it's when I took the training in PMI and Billy was there and you guys that follow me have heard me talk about the book Unreasonable Hospitality.
Speaker 1:Before that book came out, I learned about unreasonable hospitality from Billy and he said he's in, you know, in the short term with the business. You are in a hospitality business and it's extremely important that you understand, that you embrace that and that you try to provide that. Those unreasonable things that some people might think is unreasonable, but you as a host, if you're operating a boutique hotel, a bed and breakfast, doesn't matter. The key point here and Billy talked about it is we need to provide something phenomenal to our guests and I really love that about that. And I'm sure you guys watching it have already picked up on the energy that Billy brings into this industry. You know it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Now, probably he has that because he's from the beautiful islands of Hawaii and you know they have that carefree, hey aloha, you know attitude that many of us should have, especially if we're in the hospitality industry. But, billy, let's talk a little bit more about you. Tell them, you know, when I met you, you were part of Streamline, that PMS system. Pmi brought you, steve Hart brought you on to PMI, but since then you have done a lot.
Speaker 2:Give me a recap of what you've been doing since PMI well, I was just honored to be the catalyst and the fire starter at PMI and passed the torch after a couple of awesome years there and actually was hired on as a non-founder CEO of a group called Altito, which stands for a life that I dream of, and in a way it was kind of a PMI of Europe. I mean, it was six of the coolest vacation rental businesses in Europe that all wanted to get together and do something PMI-esque and is be a big family and use some of the training, the systems and the tools, as you guys do at PMI, but across different countries, and they had different money, they have different languages, and so that problem to me and being offered that position to be the CEO of an amalgamation of a European group was super exciting. So I was able to do that, led that into and through the pandemic, which was something that was quite challenging, as you can probably imagine, and then ultimately, Altito was bought by a big company, which is something that I'm sure you guys talk about a lot here, and uh, and I don't know I don't know how much you discuss the, the uh, the space, and how the space is being being, uh, purchased by some of the, the big, the big money engines that are out there. But uh, but yeah, Altito was purchased and and, uh, I I went on to my next adventure, which was, uh, which was actually to take out a little bit of the regulation. There's so much regulation that's going on here in the US and actually starting to feel a little bit guilty for apologizing for this business that we know and that we love so much, which I'm sure many of you vacation rental managers have felt a little bit. If you're doing really well in a specific area where there's a lot of regulation, you can sometimes be the bad guy.
Speaker 2:So I started purchasing inns and cottages and cabins and other more commercial type dwellings that had 10, 15, 20, 30 units on one property, and I started purchasing those with a good buddy of mine, Cliff Johnson. You might recognize that name as the co-founder of Acasa Cliff and I. Actually, Cliff came in and worked with us on our very first round at PMI when he was still at rented, and Cliff and I had made a deal that we wanted to work together on something at some point when each of us had a little bit of bandwidth. So we started a company called Ohana Inns. Ohana means family in Hawaiian and the idea was to buy these inns that were seasonal, turn them into year round, run them like vacation rentals. So have a, have a you know, 15 or 20 or 30 units that are on one property, that have common amenities. Some of them have a common kitchen, Some of them have hot tubs and pools or yard games and so on and so forth. So so Ohana Inns is what I've been running for the last few years and we have a, we have a number of inns now in the portfolio and, um, trying to do one or two a year and make sure that it's not too big and too ugly Like some of the uh, some of the stuff that I've done in the past.
Speaker 2:You know, you hit the gas a little bit too hard and it gets, uh, it gets a little squirrely. So we're just being really thoughtful about um, how, how, how intentional we are and, um, how good we are to our teams and how good we are to our guests and um, yeah, and so, between that and the Hawaii business, which has been a constant throughout all of that the, the, uh, the Princeville vacation Rentals I Love Kauai team that I've been running for many, many, many years now I feel kind of bad for them because they're sometimes my little guinea pig, my test case, and if they're watching this, I love you and I'm sorry, but they're doing really well. They're having a good time out there, they're perpetuating the Aloha spirit and helping people experience the magic of Kauai and we've somehow, through the pandemic and post pandemic and how things have changed, we've been able to really manifest our own destiny and control our own destiny out there and keep the size of the business that we want and not really get too big or too small, so that things are. We're still super host on Airbnb at our 75 units and we love that size. We're managing some really nice properties.
Speaker 2:So I've got my fingers in lots of pies and I'm leading lots of teams, of teams, and especially in the Ohana Inns sector.
Speaker 2:When we buy these inns you know you usually buy it from a mom and pop who burn out, or they retire or they get tired of the hospitality business. They lose the magic or can't weave the dream like they used to and the reviews will start to show in that and you inherit these people, usually housekeeping and maintenance that do the majority of the hard work on the property and being able to meet those people and identify who actually wants to accelerate in their career, to step up into management, general management, true leadership, building teams and helping develop those people that have been kind of you know, pigeonholed for lack of a better term as a housekeeper or a maintenance person for so many years and they just never really get that shot. That's been my big light of my life for the last few years is taking those kinds of people that have it but just didn't get that opportunity, and helping them develop into leaders. So that's what I've been up to man a whole bunch. So that's what I've been up to man a whole bunch.
Speaker 1:Wow, and you said a lot. You gave a lot of gold nuggets in that short bit and I want to touch on a couple of those things right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The first thing I want to touch on is you're buying these. What was the inspiration of deciding? Hey, let me see if I can focus and buy some of these mom and pop inns and then convert them from seasonal to long term?
Speaker 2:Like what we do, that process. You know I bought my first vacation rental in 99 and I knew that the you know the short term rental single, family or condo pencils. So if it was in a situation that was adventure driven, near a national park, you know, near skiing or some sort of real, like you know, activities are cool again. Camping is cool again. During the pandemic we started seeing a lot of this like people fleeing busy places. And so, you know, just watching the market and seeing like these little cottage, boutique-y type places that just reminded me of a bunch of vacation rentals on one property, especially out on the East Coast, it's like, okay, I can buy something for a million bucks that has 15 units. I can't buy one house in Lake Tahoe for a million bucks. Why wouldn't I buy something that has 15 units that's on this thoroughfare that goes to a national park, I mean. And then you start running the numbers and you don't need to be a genius to notice that, like, the numbers are massive. So that, plus the idea of, okay, since the late nineties, you know, I've run these vacation rental businesses that are scattered all over a big area Kauai, like you know, from from one end of Kauai to the other takes you three hours to drive from. So if, if yourauai to the other takes you three hours to drive from. So if, if your vacation rental on the North shore has a problem and then your vacation rental on the South shore has a problem, it takes you two and a half hours to get from point A to point B in bad traffic. If I had 15 vacation rentals on one property, like, how, how cool of an experience could I provide to people if I had that same mentality of like, okay, if, if, if, if the, the housekeeping and the maintenance go home during, after, after the shift. They go home, they go back to their families and you turn this place over to the guests and let the guests have their own experience and like, basically run the spot. Um, well, if they need a towel, okay, well, here's a room with towels. Go get your own dang towel. You know, like, like, we're not going to. We don't have somebody sitting behind a desk waiting. And that's why the Ohana ends thing started to come about.
Speaker 2:It's like, okay, if we, if we buy these ends, and then you know, getting commercial financing obviously was a whole, was a whole different, was a whole different piece. I'm not a I'm not a mega wealthy guy. I'm just not pulling out a million dollars out of a briefcase and walking it across and that's not good for your business write-off anyways. But I mean going into the banker and having a background in vacation rentals. They actually interview you. They want to know who you are, what your background is, why the heck you want to, why they think you're going to be able to operate something like this, and so when you have a resume, like a lot of you folks do out there, that'll really help. So all these things kind of came together and it just it just started to work. Man, like everything else, you got to just kick down the door and rush through and see what happens.
Speaker 1:I love that, and not only have I said this when we started this podcast. I'm super excited to talk to Billy because I haven't talked to Billy in a while, so as we're going along, I'm actually catching up and learning what he's been doing in the past. But here's the interesting part For those of you that subscribe what he just talked about is what I've been preaching now. For the last year and a half and, billy, I'll update you I've been doing the exact same thing. We've been focusing on buying buildings and converting these 10, you know, right now we're looking at anything between 20 and down to five unit buildings and just converting those buildings into short-term rentals. And for the same reason you just talked about, this is you're like you're blowing my mind right now, because you're just confirming what I've been thinking about and doing in the last year and a half, that I am on the right track, because you know, if you're doing it, like I said, I thought you know, I firmly believe that with your knowledge or your experience, that anyone should follow you if they want to be successful in this industry. So I'm glad you just mentioned that. In addition to that, like I'm teaming up with, I'm desperately trying to team up with this company called Timbercraft Homes and they're a tiny home company based out of Alabama.
Speaker 1:Doug the guy's name is Doug who owns the company, and he has a vision and I'm trying to help him implement that and be a partner with him in creating these small resort unique experience locations in rural areas. So, for example, his, his, the prototype is in Gunter, alabama. It is, yes, four small cabins. They're high end cabin. He has four small cabins. They're high-end cabins. We're talking about the luxury side, like, if you can think of a luxury hotel room. This is what this is right, cool. But long story short, it's the same concept that you're doing. It's taking these mom-and-pop inns and bed-and-breakfasts where the owner is either burnt out or just been doing it for so long and they just want to retire. It's taking on these properties because I firmly believe that is really especially for me and my company. That is where our future is right, because, I agree with you, we're up to over 100 units under management but, like you, they're all over the place right. And I'm just going to talk about South Florida, because we have properties now in Colombia and in Europe, but from Miami, from the south end of Miami, all the way to the north end of West Palm Beach. Like you said, if something happens, my team has to drive hours to get to it. So we're trying to be a little bit more centralized and I really like that.
Speaker 1:Now, the other thing you talked about that I really love and it's funny because I just you know I follow I don't know if you follow Patrick Bredavid, but he just recently had on and I'm forgetting the guy's name, but he's a boxing promoter out of the UK and one of the things he talked about in this podcast is what you just mentioned is that when he talked about staffing, he talked about how majority of his C-suites executives came from within. There were their janitors, there were their stage workers and he nurtured them and built them, and now these people are running divisions, which I love that you're doing that because I'm a firm believer in the same thing. Most of my staff started with me, right. In fact, the shortest tendered person on my staff is my new maintenance guy. But prior to that, in my maintenance division, prior to that, everyone has been with me from the get-go. We just decided to hire a new guy because our maintenance group is growing, but, man, they've been with me for years since I started, and I'm nurturing them and I'm helping them develop into their own CEOs, right, so they can eventually run it.
Speaker 1:And for those that don't know and Billy mentioned it he's got his hands. He's doing what I mentioned in the last STR News about going vertical. Billy definitely understands going vertical in business, right, but here's the beauty about it Not only does he understand that, not only does he have his hands in a little bit of everything, but he also travels. He also sees the world, he also has the ability to live life as it should be lived, right. You know, being tied down to one location, working nine to five and not having a true purpose, a true purpose I think that is sad. So again, billy, it's phenomenal what you've been doing. I'm so, so proud of you. Like I said, I admire you, I'm a big fan. There was another thing that you mentioned that I should have wrote it down, because now I can't remember what it was, but I'm going to.
Speaker 2:Fernando, can I mention something about?
Speaker 2:About hiring within?
Speaker 2:Yes, so thank, thank you for appreciating, uh, why it's important to develop the people that you have and look, look in, uh, before you look out is that in my experience, you're going to run into a lot of people that have a lot of bad habits and it's really, really hard to untrain those bad habits out of people that have been managers for 10 years or that have had that stuff baked in and it's to no fault of their own.
Speaker 2:They've had other bad influencers or whatever. But for you to take that damaged good or that baggage and try to fix that, versus just bringing somebody along with, like, the heart and the love and, you know, being the ninja of nice and being the dream weaver and being unreasonably hospitable and all of these things that you preach, if they hear that from you from the get go, it's going to be way easier for them to perpetuate that on, as opposed to having to retrain somebody. So give those people a chance. Don't overlook those people that are already nearby or that are in that organization. Whether you're taking over a building and there's a janitor, that janitor knows more about that place than you ever will.
Speaker 1:Yep, I love that. I mean, like I said, I, I mean, I I got chills just listening you mention that, because that, that is to the core, is something that I firmly believe that we should do, and one of the reasons I firmly believe that as well is just from personal experience. Right, I don't come from, you know, an Ivy league college. I don't have a business degree, but I had people that believed in me and I'm getting emotional.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But anyways, I had people that believed in me and gave me the opportunity, so I applaud you for that. So now that I'm super emotional, let's shift gears.
Speaker 2:But, fernando, no, I'm not going to let you get past that. But the point is, when somebody gives you that love and respect, they give you that shot. You got to grab that sucker and you got to run with it and there's so many people like you because I'm the same way man. There's so many people like you know my dad's a Marine and my mom's a flight attendant Like we didn't you know.
Speaker 1:I didn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, semper, fi brother, so and so and so, and there's so many people out there like you and me that when you get that shot, you're going to grab it and pardon my French but you're going to run like hell and all we have to do is look for that person. Because they're there. Yeah, they're there, you were there, I was there. And how much do we love that even decades later, like we still connect with that instantly and it makes us cry, because that was the difference between us getting the shot and not getting the shot 100%. Be the person to give that shot to the next one, 100%.
Speaker 1:So that's a good segue to my next question to you, and that is, as a leader, what do you think are some of the most important qualities of an effective CEO of a company?
Speaker 2:in this day and age, especially all we've been through with God politics, you know everything that's out there in the economy and pandemic and you know cost of living and all of these kinds of things. I think the most important thing for an effective CEO to really work with their organization is to have a big heart. I think that you have to be approachable. Then you have to be able to be in there and be with the people. Leading from an ivory tower or leading from a zoom meeting, like I wish I was there to be able to give you a hug, man Like I, I love you and I miss you. And seeing your face and like being with you and so like being there with the people, being there with the people that you work with, swinging the mop, getting in there to to throw on your gloves and do a housekeeping shift with your housekeeper. You got to get your butt in the middle of it because, um, especially in the hospitality space, there's no, there should never be enough separation for you to walk in with a suit on and your briefcase and like you're not getting any respect that way. So being an effective leader is using your heart. It's also using the tech that you have. I mean, there's so much good technology right now that you can learn from all the metrics that are out there, that there's so much deep data for you to be able to learn from Not that you need to follow last year's data, because things are changing so fast and you shouldn't be beholden to the data that you have but at least as a benchmark, so being able to understand how long it takes to clean a room or what your unit economics are. I think that was one of the things that, when I went to Europe the Portuguese business versus the Italian business versus the Scottish business I mean, they had metrics all over the place and what we were able to really do is to take all of those things and say, well, this is the leader, these guys are the best at cleaning. Well, they're also the quickest, like why? Well, you know, how can we learn from that? And so there's so much data out there, whether it's your data or it's a competitor's data, or it's somebody's data.
Speaker 2:Being an effective CEO is learning that data and figuring out how to apply that into your business and then also sharing it with your team and if you're managing for others, for your owners, because there's a lot of unrealistic owners out there right now and, as a good CEO, it's good, bad or ugly telling them the truth, whether or not they listen to it, that's a different story. But, yeah, using the tools around you so that you've got a, that you've got a real big base of knowledge, but also just getting your buns in there and like doing the work, you know getting, get, getting getting the mop uh, you know, getting in there with the reservations team. I take reservation reservations shifts for my reservations team. Um, I'm the first one to try to get in there and actually like take a call from a customer or or go and cook a meal with my team when I can. So I feel like things like that have been lost a little bit. And I know you have, you probably have a great like repertoire with your teams and that's why you're so successful is because you treat them like a family, you treat them with love and respect, and I feel like that's the way business needs to be these days.
Speaker 2:You know, like this, this hierarchy thing and this titles thing, like, like I don't know if you noticed on my email, but I don't have a title. I don't know what I am. I mean, I'm still, I'm still grinding every single day and I'm working and, um, I know that when people need something, I also sign the checks, but when they need something, they come to me because I'm a leader and so I don't need a title for them to know that. They just know that because that's what we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and I agree, just like you, and it's important. If you're operating the system, you're going to hear me say I'm going to kind of contradict a lot of stuff that I said before, but not really. And here's what I mean by that the CEO of a company, you cannot wear all hats. You have to really rely on your team for them to do their job. It's like Bill Belichick always said do your job and do your job. Well, right, but what Billy just said is really important, because I've done it right, because you really need to understand what that person's job is, what are their challenges and what obstacles they have in that particular job.
Speaker 1:So, for example, I too, man, I've gone on our customer service side. I'll go on there and I'll take over what I refer to. We call it the con. I'll take over the con and I'll start answering and replying to inquiries, guest questions. I'll go on there and I'll take over the con and I'll start answering and replying to inquiries, guest questions. I'll go on there and I'll start answering. So I can get reminded, because when I first started I did, I wore all hats.
Speaker 1:It was very difficult for me to grow because I didn't understand that aspect of business to let go of some stuff, right. But I've done that. I've gone out to sites when there's a turnover and I've gone and helped the team throw out the garbage to make decisions, to take action when something needs to be taken. You really need to empower them to be very proactive in your business. For example, our cleaners, for me, are the heartbeat, really the cornerstone of our business, the really the cornerstone of our business. But my cleaners also have the power to go ahead and say, hey, I need to call maintenance. Hey, this needs to get done. They have the power to say, hey, we need to replace this, because there are eyes and ears that really are the ones that see it every day and really can give us the feedback as to what's happening within a particular property. So I love what you just said, man.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, fernando, you don't need to do it.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't be doing it all the time.
Speaker 2:You should be delegating until it hurts and then you should delegate some more, because that's the only way, as a CEO, you're ever going to be able to do what you want to do, and that's probably grow. I mean, we don't we don't all want to be the biggest property manager in our area. That may be your goal, and if that's your goal, great. If you want to like get them all, go get them all. But but when, when, when you get to a certain size, when you have people around you to get back into, give them a hug, like you said, understand what they're doing, why they're doing it, and then and then maybe try to figure out what that little issue is that you could make better or take out of, take out of their day to make, to make their job better, cooler, more fun, or even a way to pay them a little bit better by making everything a little bit more streamlined, like those are the things that I feel like a leader should be doing on a regular basis in small bites, right?
Speaker 1:And I just you just reminded me what was that other thing you talked about, right? And that's about growth, and I've been those that subscribe and follow me know, know that I've been saying this. Billy just confirmed it. Right, growth is super important for a business, but control growth is the most important part for a business. It does you no good to grow so fast that you can't keep up and can't provide that exceptional service that you should be providing on a regular basis. So, yeah, the goal is always for me, the goal is always to grow, but to grow in a pace in which my team can handle the growth Really, really important. And Billy, just like I said, he's re-emphasizing everything that I've been preaching for the last year and a half to two years. So, people, when you heard me say it, it's just coming from me, it's coming from one of the leaders in the industry.
Speaker 2:Right, because if you don't do it thoughtfully, you're just going to churn it out the back. You're just going to tick somebody off by doing not what you promised to do, and then they're going to smell that, because there's the proof is in the pudding, the proof is in the reviews, the proof is in the return on their investment and when that doesn't happen, they're going to go to the next guy and to the point of getting too big just for big sake. I mean, look at some of the biggest companies in our industry now. They're losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Their stock price is not good and the guys like you are taking all their units. So, and me are taking all their units and, frankly, on that point, I am ticked off about that. Like the fact that you and me both oh man, I am ticked off about that. Like, like the fact that, oh man, I am pissed the the big the fact that the big guys in the industry are making a mess out of our industry and and turning us into use car salesman, like I hate to even say those like you know what I mean. It's like it's it's it's tainted the cool vibe that we have because now it's this big business and like I have a chip on my shoulder about that, and that's why I want to do things like. I don't want to just be the five star. I want to like go back to that old school saying at the beginning of Airbnb I want that seven star service. You know, like I, I mean, that's it. That just makes me drive even harder. And so I guess you know there's gotta be an enemy in every, in every space, and and and but I, but I like it, I'm, I'm, I'm.
Speaker 2:I did two inns last year, almost a third. Luckily, the family that we were buying the in from postponed into twenty twenty four, and that was really a blessing for me because I found that running everything else, having a life, like you said, traveling I travel about I don't know 12 months a year, travel almost exclusively, and all of that. One of our mantras at Ohana Inns and Ohana Vacation Rentals, which is launching next year, is keep it fun, keep it fun, keep it fun. I like that, and last year was almost not fun. Adding close to 100 units in one year that you own was almost not fun. And so just be careful of that. Be grateful for growth, but don't just do it for sake of doing it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean I fell into that trap and, um, it's funny, cause I had. I just had another podcast with Corey Prince. He's he's a short-term rental operator out of North Carolina and we just had this discussion because one of his goals was to hit that hundred you know, that triple zero in terms of properties under management. And you know I cautioned him because that was when I first got in the industry. That was my goal. My goal was to dominate the South Florida area, to be the biggest short-term rental management company in South Florida. I wanted to hit that hundred mark, that triple digit.
Speaker 1:But, man, in that aggressive growth that I was having, like you said, it wasn't fun, it was stressful, we were making a lot of mistakes, which is when I quickly realized no, let me pull back on the reins, let me slow down, let's focus on what we currently have and once everything is working fine and we can add another unit or two, then we add it. But it was no longer the goal to be the biggest, to have the most properties in the management. Now the goal was to be the very best with what we had. So so I'm glad we're on that same page and with you, I get really frustrated with a lot of people in the industry and really for me and I don't know if you're going to agree with me, but for me that frustration really came about in the end of 2021 and 2022, when the industry was out of control.
Speaker 1:Venture capitalists and these investors that started buying properties and just converting them to short-term rentals, just because they were jumping on the bandwagon. Everyone was making money, but I knew that that was a huge mistake. I knew eventually it was going to hurt the industry and I knew that we were stabilized because, as we're seeing now, a lot of these people that jumped on that bandwagon in 2022, led a part of 21 and 22 are no longer in the game, which is good for us. We don't want those types of people in the game. We want true professionals, true people that really are passionate about this and not just chasing the dollar. What?
Speaker 2:do you think about that? I completely agree with you. I think that those are fair weather friends. Those are people that were chasing a buck and not real hoteliers or hospitality pros at heart. And good, let them go. Yep, thanks for coming. Nice to see you go, I'll still be here doing my thing. Cheers. Nice to see you go, I'll still be here doing my thing, cheers, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. Let's talk a little bit about because you kind of touched on it and I want to kind of dive deep into this aspect as well is the technology aspect. You've been in this industry a long time before any of this stuff existed, so walk us through how the good and bad of technology and how technology has grown, the industry has helped the operator, and then we could probably touch on some of the negatives, because there are some negatives to it, but let's talk about some of the positives.
Speaker 2:Well gosh, I'll date myself here real fast and just say that my first few years of bookings I was taking checks by hand and trading them for keys. I didn't even know what a lockbox was, let alone a credit card processor or property management software or any of that stuff. I had a freaking notebook and other people's checks and I think it was probably a signifier from the start that those checks didn't bounce because I could have been moving people into my property or properties that, just like you know that, just wanted to write me bad checks. But yeah, so the technology, the, the, the, the technology arc has, you know, has, I feel like, almost crested. You know we've, we've got the PMS, we've got the, we've got the channel management thing all figured out, where just about any any good property management software can get you out to those major booking channels. We have a lot of the operational stuff figured out with great tools like Breezeway, if you want to use something like that to have your housekeepers be measured or take pictures. We have really good data for pricing or revenue management with the price labs and wheelhouse kind of pieces, and so we have this access now for just about anybody who wants to do solid end to end property management that you can go out and and purchase a stack you know for like software as a service type of fee. You know you've got a monthly 25 bucks for this and 20 bucks for that and so on and so forth, so you can put together a pretty good stack and I feel like that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2:It also takes a little bit of the fun out of it because it feels a little robotic and that's, I think, really the negative part for me is, I mean, I love to get nerdy about data, always have been. You know we've mentioned Cliff, my buddy. He, you know, led, rented for a long time and so he's super nerdy about data. And I'll tell you, when we get into our texting it's, it's Revpar and ADR and occupancy and year over year and, you know, over-rotating and overcooked or whatever, and so a lot of our, a lot of our chats are about about revenue stuff. But I feel like the technology is a really good thing because it'll allow just about anybody who wants to dip their feet into this to do it.
Speaker 2:But, as we all know, when the human element comes into the picture, you know, then it separates the you know, the big kids, from the little kids, and that's when you know the pros outshine and everybody else gets the hell out of the way, because you know you can have all the technology in the world. But when Bob's not having a good time on vacation, bob's a jerk and it's really hard to get Bob off the fence to give you a one-star review and make him give you that five-star review. I don't care how much tech you have, that's the real meat of the business. So, yeah, I think tech is great. I think there's a ton of it. That's the real meat of the business. So, yeah, I think tech is great. I think there's a ton of it. There's a ton of good, cheap software out there that you can use to build a really cool stack. But I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think it all boils down to what the first part of our conversation is, where it'll enable us to do a good job. It'll enable us to get big, and maybe too big, as we've talked about too fast, and that could also be a negative part is it's like you know, let's drool over this. This. You know you, you can run your report and see, Ooh, there's this big juicy number, let me get 10 more of those. And then there's an even bigger juicier number. But oh crap, then you got 10 Bobs who aren't having a good time and they're pissed off. And then you know, okay, I'll get back into investment banking, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, no, and I I I'm going to second what you just said, cause I firmly, I firmly agree. You know technology is phenomenal today. You know, just like you, when we first started, you know these, these platforms are we're just starting to develop. Like you, you talked about streamlining. That was like the wow, wow. There was very few PMS systems, that definitely. Price slabs didn't exist, warehouse didn't exist. But technology is great because it will allow you to grow quicker and be more efficient than you can without it.
Speaker 1:But, just like you, I agree, you can lose sight of the fact that this is still a person-to-person, human-to-human business. And this is where I caution people, especially now with AI we have incorporated AI into our customer service. Man, I still harp on my team to make sure. I'm going to give you an example. Our policy is if a guest asks more than three questions on a similar subject, we're no longer communicating by text messages or email. No, now my staff is picking up the phone and calling the person. Right, I don't want my staff and this is one of the negatives on it, because my staff, you know they're employees right, they do a phenomenal job, but they're human. And when you're on an eight-hour shift and you're receiving hundreds of inquiries, things get like routine and I don't ever want my staff to completely rely on AI to answer these questions. I need them to when they see that a guest is asking a lot of questions because they're not fully understanding what's happening. So it's much better to have that person-to-person interaction so you can ask clarifying questions.
Speaker 1:Like I said, ai is phenomenal and oftentimes they can answer questions better than you can, quicker, because they know like, for example, our AI is connected to our digital guidebooks. That has everything about the property. So they can quickly. You know, if a guest says, hey, I don't know how to turn on the stove, my AI can quickly respond with the proper video and all that, whereas my team would probably have to think, okay, which property? Where do I find that video? So the response is quicker. But I still want that human-to-human contact and relationship with these people because it's really important. So I'm glad you agree and I'm glad that we're on the same page that even though technology is great, we can never lose focus on the fact that this business is a person-to-person business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what we're starting to use AI for and it's a very custom, very expensive part of the business. But, for instance, when somebody books a harbor, a village side room, we have an inn called the Inn on the Harbor in Stonington Maine that has these beautiful oceanfront views. It's like the deck is over the ocean and if they book a harbor gosh, it's a village side room, a non-view room. Um, we're working on technology to, to, to push them up onto if there's a certain amount of time. There's certain triggers so that if there's a certain amount of time that a guest hasn't booked one of the ocean view rooms will automatically upgrade them, will automatically send notifications to the teams that they, that this has happened, etc. Always help the guest have the best possible experience, while not trying to pull the wool over the eyes of your team of like, holy crap, where did this guest go? Did they check in? When were they moved? How were they moved? So those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:And if you're worried about having AI actually talk to your guests, which I know a lot of people are, I'm glad that you aren't. That's courageous. I was going to use another word that probably wouldn't be podcast friendly, pardon me, but if you don't want to go that deep, you can always use AI for a wiki like an inside wiki, so that your customer service team can learn quickly about those properties without having to ask another person. They can drive that information through the AI to themselves and then give that information out quickly. So there's no single point of failure there. So I like AI for that. We have not turned on any automatic AI chat stuff for any of our places At Ohana. With a place called Ohana, it's very person to person. As much as I am such a tech nerd, virtually everything in my world is tech automated, whatever. I haven't been able to cross that bridge yet, so I'm proud of you and when I get there I'll call you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please do. I got to tell you it really was. Um. It's not an easy decision and it wasn't an easy decision for us, um, and when we first launched, you know, when we were better testing that um man, like I said before, you don't want to be deeply involved in the day-to-day, but when I was doing the beta test for this man, I was there. You know the message goes out. I would see how my customer service was going to respond and then I'm just like I was fixated on it, but it worked out really well. My customer service people really love it, but it worked out really well. My customer service people really love it. So for us it has been a really cool experience. It really did help increase our customer satisfaction a lot.
Speaker 1:One of the things that really surprised me is that they knew our processes and procedure, or AI learned our processes and procedure and responded in a much better way than any of my staff could have done in that speed, in the speed they can do it, but not in the speed that AI was able to do it.
Speaker 1:So I mean I was like whoa and it was a little scary, to be honest, because you're like whoa, that's. I mean they really recognized that and it's I think it was it really enhanced our customer experience and, again, it also enhanced the employee experience, because my staff is not. One of the things that we discovered in one of our team meetings was they didn't feel as stressed as they were before in terms of you know, how do I respond, especially when a guest is nasty, when a guest is being, you know like a lot of people are entitled, you know, just being abrasive and abusive. You know I respect all customer service people because of what they have to deal with, because, like I said, I've actually had to sit there and like, wow, this is what you really have to go through, especially today, because I'm seeing that more and more today than ever before, people are just nasty.
Speaker 2:It's unfortunate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's unfortunate, but AI is able to respond without an emotion, which is cool, which is what I really like. Let me ask you another question in terms of balance how do you guys balance strategic planning and your day-to-day operation?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean I like to get the people that are the smartest people that I know around so that we can talk, have to feel like I've got to worry about whether or not they're executing, and so that's something that's really good for me on the day-to-day is I don't feel like I have so much day-to-day because everyone knows that they're empowered to make those decisions and then, if it was the wrong one, we can talk about it and why Everybody can bring their opinion to the table. That's the cool thing about the hospitality business is that we get lots of chances. We don't just get one shot a year. You don't have one plane you're building a year and if that plane doesn't fly, you're toast. I mean we get guests all the time. We get lots of shots, we get lots of reps, so to speak, and so that's what's really nice about being, I think, a leader with heart and giving your team, like you said, the respect and the empowerment that they need to be able to make those decisions. It makes your day-to-day a whole lot easier and you can stay in that strategic side of things.
Speaker 2:Where I'm at right now is we're looking at a lot of properties to purchase. We're looking for leads that are off market. So I think a lot more of my time is able to be doing that kind of stuff building relationships with owners or innkeepers or hoteliers that are on their way out and figuring out how we can get to know them a little bit better, because by the time it's hit the market it's probably overpriced and probably isn't that good of a deal, or you got to fight with a bunch of other people over it if it's a really good deal, or so on and so forth. So I think to answer your question is the more you are willing to give away your day to day and that's tough because it's, uh, you know it's pulling, it's, it's giving your baby away, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta empower those people Then the more time you have to work on the strategic side of things. So it's you don't get one without the other.
Speaker 1:I know, I 100% agree, and as it relates to buying stuff off market, that's really the only way to go. Today, it's very difficult, very difficult to buy things. Now, one of the things that we've discovered, especially in the areas that I've been looking I don't know if you're starting to experience this on the commercial side, it has become a little easier than it was before. On the residential side not the case, but on the commercial side it has become a little easier. But you're right, finding stuff off market is going to be the key. So let me ask you this question in terms of you know, how do you foster innovation, collaboration within your current company company structures that you currently have?
Speaker 2:So a lot of the people that we get or that we really like, for some reason, are really old school people. So it's really fun to, like you said, foster, and it is a foster job. It's not just a forcing job, because when you force it they crack and it's done. So it's a process. I mean you really have to layer cake things on with people, little by little. I have great directors of my operations, like Jason, who does the direction for our innkeeping business, is the most patient man that I know. He came on and worked with us. He actually came from Vacasa. So much of our good talent are like the really, really amazing people who are, you know, being let go by these other companies and I'm like, thank you, jesus, come on down, bring them on, baby. I mean just amazing people that need an awesome home, that are just so freaking smart and they're so patient. So, so like fostering, innovation comes with patience, and that's something I really have none of. I will be honest with you I, as a, as a fire starter, as a, as a, as a, as a runner, you know, like a guy who runs through things at, things like patience is not the name of my game, but finding the person in the room that has the patience to, little by little, layer cake on things that will help those people get better and better at their job. I mean from little things, like you know, when we buy an inn and we acquire some outdated, antiquated property management software or whatever and we've got to bring it into the fold Trying to teach that person who's leading that in about reservations and all this kind of stuff, I mean it takes a village. So it's a lot of being flexible. It's a lot about like finding who's the buddy for that person.
Speaker 2:One of our surveys that we put out asks, like you asks do you have a buddy? And if not, we need to find you a buddy. We need to make sure that you've got somebody that you can ask those stupid questions to, because people just don't come out in the all hands meeting and say I actually don't know how to use that. They don't want to sound stupid, even though that would be totally fine because we don't care. We've all made so many stupid decisions we try to make. We try to fail every single day. That's one of our things that we try to do is we try to fail as much as possible so we can learn from it. But it's hard for somebody who thinks they're lower down the proverbial pole to ask a dumb question. But if they have a buddy, they don't mind saying like oh hey, you know, how did you learn how to do this? Or whatever. So that's one thing that we try to do is Is repetition, remind them, remind them, remind them, teach them, even if we think they already know how to use it.
Speaker 2:Test people a little bit, quiz them, but not in big, open areas where they're going to feel really dumb if they get the wrong. We have we have buddy testing. Hey, if this happens, how are you going to handle it? Hey, have you thought about using this for this particular application? Hey, when was the last time you logged into this particular part of the software stack? And so, like big picture stuff and little picture stuff is how we foster it, but mainly with a lot of patience, because people will lie to you and tell you that they know how to use something, but they don't, and that's not you know, it's like it's human nature, like we want to smile and go yes, yes, I got it, I got it.
Speaker 2:But like you don't freaking, got it Like it's fine, you know it's part of life.
Speaker 1:So it's the of life, so it's, it's the, it's the all inclusive approach, you know. But patience is the big key. And along those same lines, like what, what do you think has been?
Speaker 2:your biggest challenge as a CEO?
Speaker 2:Trying to to convince my people that I work with that, being engaged in the community, doing a toy drive for Christmas, or having the scarecrow competition, or going across the street to paint the Grange on the clock or, you know, helping the people that have, you know, no power.
Speaker 2:Come into our properties, or come into our inns, or when there's a hurricane scare in Hawaii, letting people stay for free that don't have power.
Speaker 2:That is not a trick. Being engaged with the community and actually giving a damn about the place that you're doing business, for some reason, has always been the hardest thing for us to prove to our teams that we're authentic about, and I'm not sure why. Maybe because people just have so many bad experiences with previous employers. Like tricking you into thinking that when you do good things it's going to be beneficial, but then you get docked for it or you get let go because you've been too generous. And there are so many easy things about being a leader, but for some reason, convincing the team that that is something that we really care about and reminding them again and again that that's okay has been hard and I and it really makes me sad because like that's something it seems like should be really easy, but for some reason it's hard to get people to think in a very generous and hospitable way, which kind of makes me sad.
Speaker 1:No, I agree, and it's funny you bring that up because, again, as I mentioned, I just did a podcast with Corey Prince, who's in North Carolina, and North Carolina was one of his areas, one of the areas really devastated by the hurricane, and I also did a podcast with. I don't know if you're familiar with Smithmore Castle. I don't know if you're familiar with Smithmore Castle, but Smithmore Castle is one of the most unique experiences in the hospitality industry, probably in all of the US. It's really cool. They're also in North Carolina and we spoke exactly about this topic. Example smithmore castle during the hurricanes. Um, you know, they opened up. Like once they were able to get functional because they didn't have phone servers, water, any of that. Once they able to do that and they had, uh, um, they're one of the few areas because they have their own well that had water you know, they opened it up for people to come take a shower, use their salad, to connect to Internet, make a phone call.
Speaker 1:You know those things are usually important. I talked about and I've done this from day one is also beneficial, even though initially I didn't look at it as a business, from a business point was the fact that you know South Florida, just like in your areas, we get a lot of hurricanes and I've been fortunate that we South Florida has been missed by most hurricanes, but the West coast has not. So every time we've gotten into and it's in our protocol that if we get a hurricane, watch that we start doing target marketing to those people there, to those that want to evacuate, to come to our, our properties, and instead of doubling my, my rates, because I know they're going to come anyways, no, we reduced it by half. If their property gets affected and they need longer stay, not only do we reduce the rates by half, but we also give them the ability to stay for free as long as they can demonstrate that their property was affected. And we've been doing that now for several years. But on the flip side, where now I say that I look at it also from a business perspective today is because now people know that and people reach out to us and when there's not a hurricane and they need a place to stay, they automatically reach out to me hey, my family's coming from wherever they want to go to Florida. Do you have something? So, you know, be charitable, as you should be, but understand that if you do it right and you do it from the heart that it's gonna, god is gonna reward you. He's going to double bless you for that. So I agree with you. That's really important from a business perspective.
Speaker 1:And another side note I have a very good friend of mine. She's the CEO of a big venture capitalist group here in South Florida and she is very big on community service and she's always talking about veterans, the homeless, and when she first got into it and this is before I started really really getting into business I used to always say, man, you're just a bleeding heart liberal, right. I used to always say, man, you're just a bleeding heart, liberal, right. But now I really understand her and I really understand that. You know I was looking at it from a different perspective and now I'm like man, she is one of the most good-hearted and visionary person that I know, because I never looked at it from her perspective and the importance of giving back, because you're going to get a lot more in return Now. I fully understand that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's something that I think I would challenge everybody, who's in business or not in business, to do Use your social media. Get on a local Facebook group, like in Maine we have. You know, trenton is one of our little towns that we have an in in, and so Trenton has the. They call it the town crier. It's like the town bulletin board. Join the town crier. Get to know those people who post about all.
Speaker 2:We got too many veggies in the garden or oh hey, so-and-so's power's out, or you know like. Start to like soak these things up and then you'll find a spot where you can fit in and you can pop in there. And so what we started doing and here's something that we have in all of our units now is we have this little giving block and it says too many souvenirs, extra food and not enough space, or just feeling like you're in the spirit of giving, leave clothing or non-perishable food out with this wood block, and our Ohana will give it to the local charity partner so they can get it into the hands of someone in need.
Speaker 2:It's the Ohana way, and so I love that this, this right here, sits in all of our rooms and all of our vacation rentals and all of our properties. And you'd be surprised when the housekeeping teams come in. There's always stuff like they buy a Park City, utah sweatshirt or they buy whatever, and then they have too much crap in their suitcase and they leave stuff out with this, and so we just like create a little mention of how you can also be charitable and guests they give. They give a lot.
Speaker 1:I'm going to steal that from you, cause that's, I didn't think about that, but I'm definitely stealing that from you. I really liked that.
Speaker 2:Now we had we don't it also has your website on the bottom too, so it's not 100% charitable. There is a there is a marketing component into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I said, that's exactly my point. You're going to have an ability to do something like that and still have business in mind. So don't feel like you're just giving away stuff, because you're still, if you market it, still marketing, you have to spend marketing dollars. You're still, you know, if you market it, still marketing, you have to spend marketing dollars. But I love that and, like I said, I'm going to steal that idea. That's what.
Speaker 2:I told you, man, it's not a secret.
Speaker 1:I challenge you, my friend. No, I am definitely implementing that ASAP. That's going to be our next project. So now let's shift here a little bit in terms of the future.
Speaker 2:Right, let's talk a little bit about the STR industry and some you know what. What do you see is the biggest trend shaping? I mean, from a local operator, from maybe a franchisee at Property Management Inc or somebody who's just breaking into the industry, I think it's just setting the proper expectation, because we've hit this critical mass of vacation rentals in just about every market rentals in just about every market, even in the high seasons or the pinch points where you used to be able to double or triple your rates for Christmas or for New Year's or for ski season or for whatever the high, high rates are. The trend is now that there's more supply than there is demand, and so it's definitely making sure that you're not over-promising and under-delivering. It's not being doom and gloom, but it's definitely setting the proper expectation of what you're going to be producing for that owner, because sometimes, if you go off of the AirDNAs of the world and you just give a rental performance analysis based on what they shoot you, you might look silly. So just being very careful, I think, about what you're promising is a huge trend that a lot of people have to watch out for. I also think that we have to watch out for regulation.
Speaker 2:Regulation is continuing to happen more and more, and also the shifting of the OTAs. It used to be for Hawaii, you know. It used to be 80% Airbnb for a few years and now it's, you know, 40% Airbnb, 20% bookingcom, 20% Vrbo, 40% Airbnb, 20% bookingcom, 20% Vrbo. So those trends of which power in the marketing side of things, who's putting their marketing dollars into your area? And is there a little OTA that may be one of the property management softwares that's like a local OTA that you can get involved with that gets a lot of bookings?
Speaker 2:So I feel like those are a couple of the trends that we're seeing right now. Overall, though, I feel like it's pretty simple. Short-term rental has been. It got overcooked a bit and now everything is pulling back, which is really good for us hospitality professionals, because the fair weather friends and the people that aren't really that serious about this are going to go back to long-term, or they're going to go to medium term and they're going to suck at that too, and then they're going to go to long-term. So those are some of the trends that I'm seeing right now.
Speaker 1:No, and I agree. There's not much for me to add to that. In terms of where the industry is going, I firmly believe everything you said is what's trending, in fact, so much so. Have you had a chance to review some of the stuff that's happening with Uber and Airbnb, especially with the winter release that Airbnb just put out? Have you had a chance to see that? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm probably a bad boy for saying this, but I haven't watched it. I haven't watched the winter release, yeah, okay, so please educate me. That's what we're here for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is where, again, what you just mentioned about the industry is oversaturated, and what I talked about earlier before about going vertical. So two things real quick. Uber is looking to buy out Expedia For those that don't know, expedia is a travel platform that bought out Verbal several years ago and Uber wants to go very vertical and they want to be what I dubbed the Amazon of travel. Airbnb wants to do the same. In fact, as a result of what Uber is trying to do, airbnb is saying the same. That's why, in the winter release, they came out with a new co-hosting option. Right, because now they understand that they need to get into the management side of the house. So now they're providing this co-hosting platform so that people that are looking to get into Airbnb but don't know how to do it, they can team up with a seasoned, experienced manager.
Speaker 1:Right, airbnb is doing that. But they're also trying to go vertical as well and they want to get into the car rental, the flight buying, flights, all that aspect of travel. They want to be that one-stop shop. So that's one big thing and it's a big shift in the market there. But on top of that, airbnb's understanding and they did this last year when they released the category section of Airbnb, which I said at the end that that was going to be a problem for hosts, and it was a problem and it continues to be a problem. And what they're doing now is even worse, in my opinion Great for the consumer, but not great for the host.
Speaker 1:And what they're doing now is that they went so I don't know if you know this in this winter release, they're creating what's called a personalized platform. So what they're doing is very similar to what Instagram does, what TikTok does. So they're recognizing what your search patterns are, what you're looking, what you're probably going to book. So long gone are the days for operators like us to try to show up on the first or second page. You can't do it anymore because the search is 1,000% dependent on the consumer. So Airbnb is going to feed the consumer what they believe the consumer is going to book. So you know which?
Speaker 2:is a problem. It's garbage, because I'm not the kind of person that wants to stay in the same place twice. Like they're wrong, Like I'm sorry, but just because I book a cave one time doesn't mean I want to be a cave dweller for the rest of my travel career, for crying out loud. So just like, let me see it all and pick which direction I want to go, please, and thank you Airbnb.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, anyways, that's the trend, that's where they're going towards, that's where they're doing and you know I said this on the last podcast recording as an operator as a short-term rental management operator that are managing property for other people. This is really critical for you and I explained it with some of my clients that I manage properties for. They have the bad habit of going out to Airbnb to see where their property is and I explain to them listen, don't do that, it hurts the algorithm. And now you're not even going to see, not going to show up, because they know you're not going to book that. Airbnb is going to know you're not going to book it, so don't even bother going on the platform. For us on our PMS system, you want to see if it's booked or not. Just go on your owner's portal and get to see it. But don't do that, especially on Airbnb, because it hurts the conversion rates, it's going to hurt the actual performance of the listing. But anyways, that's some of the new stuff that's coming out, some of the trends that you know.
Speaker 1:In the long run, if you are shifting more towards direct booking, to be multi-platform, you'll be fine, but those of you that are still stuck at only being on Airbnb or only being on verbal and Airbnb. Man, you're making a big mistake and you're already seeing, and your accuracy rate has been dropping year over year, because people are not going to find you if it's not something that they normally book. So it's just part of the industry. You have to evolve with the industry. Part of the industry. You have to evolve with the industry. But more and more you have to spend your efforts in marketing your property and, as a side note, this is why I can't. You know, one of my pet peeves is when I hear people say I'm in the Airbnb business. You're not in the Airbnb business, you're in the short-term rental business or vacation rental business. Stop promoting Airbnb.
Speaker 2:Anyways, right. And also I feel like the more that we remind people that this is not an Airbnb or a Vrbo or a whatever, that this is a special house that you're going to go and have a rad experience, or this is our special place, like, even though we own hundreds of units and we manage hundreds of units, every place is that special place and if it's not that special place, you shouldn't be managing it. If it's not that special place, you shouldn't be owning it. Like, if it's just a what you said in air quotes the Airbnb, the Airbnb. There's nothing cool about that. That's actually the kind of place that you think about oh, that's where they had that big party, or that's the party house, or that's the gross house. That's just the Airbnb, not attractive at all. Definitely, think about your place as a special place and, if it's not, make it that special place.
Speaker 1:And if it's not, make it that special place, okay, and let's shift gears now in terms of what do you see? Because now this is a big one for me. I personally have seen a big shift in this. I want to get your opinion on this. How do you see guest expectations today? How has that evolved, especially in the luxury and the pop-up hotel market? What are you seeing with how guests are currently reacting, their expectations of what a short-term rental should be?
Speaker 2:That's a great question Guest expectations. You know, a few years ago it was what are these locks? You know the older crowd and having somebody there to listen to them, and I think that you nailed this really well with your customer service stack and how you have AI and you have real people. But I feel like the guest experience from what I've seen in both and I'm not really in the super luxury space, just the luxury space, in fact we're in more of the like medium uh, we want the people to be hanging out by the campfire and uh, you know, we have s'mores at our ends. We have, we have, uh, we have s'mores packets at all of our ends for people to go and roast by the fire. Like that's the kind of, that's the kind of business we do, because that's the kind of person I am and I don't want to be in a segment of the business that I feel like I don't mix up with the people. Like when I go to my inns, they don't know that I own the place. I just go hang out by the fire and barbecue the s'mores like everybody else, or do the lobster bakes or do all that kind of stuff. But I feel like guests really look for those main things that they've always looked for easy access, somebody at the drop of a hat if they want to get a hold of somebody, and super clean spaces Doesn't necessarily have to be updated and brand new. If it's a rustic space and it's clean, that's fine. But they want a really authentic experience. Like in Maine, we do the Maine thing. We have the lobster tools, we have the stuff for them to. You know, we have the rain gear because there's a lot of quick, quick rainstorms that come through. We have the appropriate stuff for them to actually like, have a decent time. We think about the things that they didn't think about, but I think that they want the authentic experience. That's the easiest way to say it.
Speaker 2:The luxury side I'm not the best at because I try to stay away from a lot of the luxury folks. They're a little high maintenance. Sometimes I'm probably going to get hung in public for saying that, but I've stayed out of that segment just because of that reason. And the people that come to Kauai that stay at our luxury places tend to be the kinds of people that go to the store barefoot, as I do, and so, yeah, I'm not exactly the luxury guy to ask, but for my guests, as long as there's somebody to listen to that especially can give them local tips, and we have customer service teammates that are both in the US and that are abroad. We have awesome teammates in South America, we have Philippines and Vietnamese teammates, but they've been to our properties and so they can actually speak about our properties because they've been to our properties. I feel like having an offshore customer service teammate that doesn't really know your property can get you into a whole lot of trouble real fast.
Speaker 1:Glad you brought that up because I firmly agree with that. So we also have virtual assistants and they're out of the Philippines, but I made it a point and here's the thing with that. Number one, I made it a point to make sure that they're part of our team, right, because I think a lot of people that use virtual assistants because they're not there every day, because they're not local, they tend to forget that they're a very vital component of your business. So, for example, like now we're, you know, in December we always have a holiday dinner. I bring everyone that's involved in my company. We go to one of the nicest restaurants in Fort Lauderdale and we just have a dinner. But I make it a point to bring everyone in my company, including my VAs, that I have to bring them from the Philippines to come down here because, number one, I want them to feel part of the team, because a lot of times I believe that you know they don't feel like they're part of the team because you're not including them in certain aspects of your operations or in some social stuff. I always include my VAs Very important that you do that and, like you said, you know they have to.
Speaker 1:You know your VAs, especially for me and my customer service, you know they're a huge part, just like with my cleaners. They're a huge part of the business and if they've never been to your property, never seen your operations, there's a disconnect. And I don't want that disconnect. I want them to connect. When they say a guest says, hey, the house in Wilton Manors, I want that VA to say yeah, I've been to that house, I know what you're talking about, right, I think that's really, really important. And again, it doesn't matter and we said this earlier but you as the owner, you're the leader of the operations. You should make everyone feel valued and that they could contribute and do contribute to your business. And, like I said, I've seen it especially in PMI, because PMI has a lot of operators, have virtual assistants, because a lot of operators have virtual assistants. But when I ask them, hey, when was the last time you brought them over or when did they have ever been to you, most say they never have. They've never actually seen them face to face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say, fernando, the easiest way as an operator to think about these things is just to turn the org chart upside down and and and focus. I focus the majority of my social time with either housekeeping or customer service, because they are going to get the most contact with your people. They love being praised. They, they, they deserve it. There's there's absolutely no second class teammate in in your business and if you're wondering where to spend your time, turn your chart upside down and spend time with those people at the top.
Speaker 1:I love that. So I got only a few more questions, and this, this last question well, not second to the last question that I have is is you know, share with, because you did share one of them. That I have is is you know, share with us cause you did share one of them. Share with us some of your mantras and philosophies that have guided you throughout your hospitality career.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just those little things, uh, that I that I feel like the cornerstones are, are, are, are, are being a dream weaver, you know, like figuring out, figuring out how, when you have an interaction with a guest, try to read their mind a little bit, try to get some information out of them so that you can weave that dream and that comes from that unreasonable hospitality. If you focus on that one particular part of it, on the guest side of things, you can't really go wrong. I mean, that's the, that's the mantra is like how am I going to make this remarkable? And like what you said about your hurricane relief, when you have people come across, instead of being that jerk who doubles the prices, you have your prices, you give them 50% off. That is a very remarkable thing for those people. So if you're trying to do something that is authentic, that is from the heart and that is remarkable, and you just give and give and give without the expectation of receiving, like you said, that your blessings will be doubled or whatever faith you believe in, you know, cosmically speaking, you're going to get way more back than you've ever put out there.
Speaker 2:And it's hard to say that when you're just starting there. And it's hard to say that when you're just starting out. Or it's hard to say that when you're just getting going and you don't really have a whole lot to give. Um, because you're giving your all to the, to the hosting side. You're giving your all to the guests, but you always have to challenge yourself to continue to give and you have to remind yourself that that those are the most powerful things that you can give back to, like the old man down the street who has the power out, you know, bringing him over for a couple of days so that he can get a shower and and looking out for those kinds of people, those little mantras like taking care of the community, being guest focused, being owner focused. If you're managing for others and taking care of the community, you always have to do that because when you have an owner last kind of a mantra or mentality, whether you're managing for others or you're owning a vacation rental, when you have an owner last kind of a philosophy, I feel like everybody in your organization will appreciate you more and go to the ends of the earth for you. So I always try to have an owner last philosophy. And that doesn't mean I don't have a good life. I have the very best life. I just don't.
Speaker 2:I've learned through my travels and you and I, I think, connect on this a is that when you get to go and see more of the world and you experience what's out there, not only do I become more of a patriot when I come back to the US, because I really do feel like bad it is, or how, how, how, how, how troubled we are as a, as a nation, or all this stuff that you hear about on the news. It's just, it's just garbage. I mean, you have it so freaking good and you will know that the more that you go and you travel and you see the struggle and the hunger and the lack of opportunity and the corruption and all those true things that are out there, we at least have some checks and balances so that the yeah, things will swing back and forth and yeah, maybe you're not happy about what just happened with the election and all this, but I think we can all agree that we want Mike Tyson to knock out that guy on Friday. We can all agree on one thing Go Mike.
Speaker 2:I went to see him knock out Spinks when I was just a kid. Yeah me too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wish I could see Iron Mike fight again. But yeah, just try to put everything else in your property management business out in front of you. Give it all, and before long you'll really start to get back so much more joy and so much more of the other stuff that you need to keep going, like the money and the opportunities and that stuff. So that's how I look at things.
Speaker 1:I love that. One of the questions I was going to ask you is what advice would you give someone starting out? But that's the best advice I think anyone can give someone starting out in this business. I want to close with this Can you do us a big favor, Because we talked offline before we got out. Can you? You know you travel a lot, I travel a lot Can you show us how you travel?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I like you, like you said. Um, I do want to add one more thing to the just getting started and that is get, get your butt out of the office. Get out of the house, like, go to that realtor office, go to the other property managers in town and talk to them, because they may only operate in one part of town and they're getting leads for another part of town, or they only do houses and you want to do condos, or get to know the people that are out there. Ask the questions, go out, out out, don't sit around. Nothing good is going to happen in your office. You have to go out and you have to. You have to pick up the phone and you have to ask questions, and it's free, like the phone calls are free. So get your butt on the phone and ask the questions, ask for business and get out there, because when you start to put that energy out, people will start to recognize that you're that person who wants it, because not very many other people do, and they'll start to come back to you. So all of the things that we've talked about for the last bit have resulted in me having more places that I know what to do with, and everybody always asks me the toughest question, which is where do you live?
Speaker 2:And I live out of my backpack, which is right here. I keep it with me. It's got. These are from the Himalaya, austria, prague, yeah, more Himalaya, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, germany, I collect patches. I live out of about. I think this is about 50 liters and I can pack it all the way down. And, like Fernando, I do not check bags. Checking bags is for wimps. You leave it out of this, you put everything in this and that's really all you need. You need rain gear, you need a puffy coat, you need a pair of slippers, you need some good boots and some good walking shoes and just about that. Else, nothing really matters. That's why there's such a thing as a Visa card. They don't take American Express everywhere anymore.
Speaker 1:No, they don't. And those that follow the channel you know I talked about that Don't take American Express to Europe, especially Spain. No one takes it. But Billy man, I freaking love this conversation. I wish we could go on forever. You are the best.
Speaker 1:Oh man, the feelings are mutual buddy, I definitely want to bring you on later on, after you get all this stuff settled. My beautiful people, I'm going to have Billy's information listed down below, so if you want to reach out to him, if you want to stay in one of his properties, by all means, please do so. You're going to have a phenomenal experience. Subscribe to this channel. If you haven't subscribed, don't forget to follow me on Instagram, because that's where I post almost all my content and some stuff that I don't put on here. Love you, guys. I'll see you in the next one. Billy, hold on one second, because what's